A trans woman was assaulted outside Stratosphere Skateboards. (screenshot via YouTube)Trans woman brutally attacked in Little Five Points Patrick Saunders July 3, 2014 Atlanta, Georgia, Today in Gay Atlanta 87 Comments UPDATE JULY 3: Man who says he filmed attack said it was not sparked by transphobia. Video has surfaced online of a transgender woman being brutally assaulted in Little Five Points. The attack occurred in front of Stratosphere Skateboards. The Vine video was posted Tuesday and started circulating on Twitter late Wednesday. A Vine user with the username TriAngle SquarE posted a series of Vines showing a trans woman in a verbal altercation with several people. The last video posted showed an unidentified man throwing the woman to the ground and then stomping on her head. You can view all of the Vines spliced together below into one video, but be advised that it is violent and includes explicit language. It is unclear what happened after the last Vine, and what the extent of the victim’s injuries are. The GA Voice reached out to the Atlanta Police Department tonight to find out if they were aware of the incident and if a report had been filed. The GA Voice does not know who the victim is or how they identify. “I have checked with Zone 6 Command and searched myself but cannot locate a reported dispute at that location,” the APD’s Gregory Lyon said. “It’s quite possible the person being attacked in the video did not report this to us.” This is the second recent attack on trans women captured on video, following the assault on two trans women on a MARTA train in May. Two men have been arrested and charged with disorderly conduct in that incident. Cheryl Courtney-Evans, founder of Transgender Individuals Living Their Truth (TILTT) said it was disturbing to see people again watching and doing nothing to help. “If this person is not in the hospital, I don’t know why the Atlanta Police don’t know about it—she should have reported it. I’m sickened by the fact that people were once again standing around doing nothing, when this waste of DNA should have been detained and locked up for assault. “As a community, transgender individuals are just tired of having to fear and worry about our safety at any given moment that we leave our homes. While we understand that the LGB community has the same worry, we also know that they have reached a point in society where it is not so prevalent or common. Transgenders, on the other hand, particularly MTFs, must worry about ‘passing’ or they become instant possible targets for verbal or physical abuse,” she said. Jeff Graham, executive director for Georgia Equality, the state’s largest LGBT advocacy group, said it’s time to address the violence against trans people. “That’s another horrific attack against a transgender or gender variant person. I hope that the person who has been attacked comes forward so that the police can fully investigate. It is also time to address the overall violence that transgender people live with every day through increased public education and enforcement of the policies that the city of Atlanta has put in place,” he said. The appearance of the video led to a flurry of tweets about the incident Wednesday night. Cringe is too soft a word for the visceral reaction I have when I watch that vine. I can’t accept that this is Atlanta. — Robbie Medwed (@rjmedwed) July 3, 2014 @rjmedwed every woman everywhere should be disgusted to their core about this. This is our sister. And ppl stood and watched it. — Amy (@Amy1N) July 3, 2014 Apparently Atlanta ISN'T the city "too busy to hate." Attack on a trans woman on Moreland yesterday is a growing trend. — Dana Lisa Young (@danayoung) July 3, 2014 For the people asking how they can make me feel better: Prevent this from happening again. Protect trans women. — Vivian (@VanguardVivian) July 3, 2014 The GA Voice has reached out to Stratosphere Skateboards and surrounding businesses to talk to any witnesses to the incident. Anyone with more information about the attack, please contact me via email or Twitter. email@example.com | @patricksaunders SHARE ON 87 Responses nick July 3, 2014 lol Reply Thomas Derenthal July 4, 2014 I just joined the L5P Business Association and was forwarded this link by another L5P business owner. Let’s set aside the animated behavior (not too outrageous by L5P street scene standards) of the individual who was stomped: No one, absolutely no one deserves this type of treatment. Period. End of story. And if you think you have an argument against the victim, well… what, you’re pro-face-stomping? The larger problem here is that we have roaming the streets of Little Five Points an extremely violent person who is willing to commit aggravated battery. This person needs to be found and tried. The video doesn’t lie. This man stomped someone who was on the ground. He stomped them in the face with the full force of his body weight with the intent to do as much damage as possible. The type of blow inflicted could easily have caused death or permanent injury, if it didn’t indeed do that. If, as the new guy, I may be so forward as to publicly offer my opinion, I have to be honest and say that there is a lot of behavior in Little Five Points that, while nowhere nearly as extreme as this, does make me keep my head on a swivel at certain times and in certain areas. I’m not one to go on a crusade to push out any group or class or type of people based on appearance or age or gender or race or any other personal trait – or even try to form classifications for that purpose. But it’s time to have an honest discussion about this, and similar, lesser kinds of behavior, and about creating and enforcing a community standard that fosters an atmosphere of safety in the neighborhood. This sort of thing only happens where it is tolerated to any degree at all or has been allowed to happen over time because residents and business owners haven’t acted forcefully enough over a long enough period of time to uphold a higher standard. Please, I am not blaming anyone or any group. And if there is any convenient way to profile or classify people for purposes of this discussion, then it would have to be the type of people who stomp people in the face with the intent to do serious bodily harm. Look, it is what it is, and this, as seen in this video, is the way it is. From my observations and attendance at L5P Business Association meetings, it seems to me that the business community wants to attract residents from other areas of Atlanta and visitors from other parts of the country and the world to Little Five Points. When I tell friends and business associates where I live, I get comments about why they don’t want to come to Little Five Points. This violent act, committed in broad daylight in front of a business along the main thoroughfare (and lots of other lesser acts large and small – annoyances, aggressive panhandling, etc.) is what creates the perception that Little Five Points is a little too rough, or a less than hassle-free place to go for dining and entertainment. Mind you, I am absolutely not suggesting that we homogenize and sanitize and de-flavorize the neighborhood (I’m looking at you, Buckhead). The diversity and youthful flavor are attractive. But any community – Buckhead, Little Five Points, Inman Park, you name them – has to take it upon themselves to set and enforce a standard of acceptable behavior. This has to come from the community, not just the police – a guaranteed one hundred percent crime-free community is also a police state. This extremely violent event occurred because, over time, the boundaries of acceptable behavior slipped to the point where violent people like this man felt that not only was it OK to do this, but that he could do it and get away with it. Now… having said this, please accept that I am no wordsmith, and I may not have expressed the sentiment as eloquently as someone else could have (or put in enough commas – so here are a few extra ,,,,,,,). Please, grant me some forbearance for being the new guy. I tried to be diplomatic, but I did also try to be as honest as was appropriate, given that I’m the FNG (look it up). And I edited, edited, edited; I didn’t just pound this out as quickly as I could while my gut was still churning in reaction to the video. Please also accept that I am not out to blame or stereotype anyone or group, and I don’t mean to suggest that the business community or residents are somehow at fault. An environment conducive to the type of public behavior seen in this video has to have evolved over a period of time in many ways, large and small (I was wary of L5P as far back as thirty five years ago). Understanding how things came to be the way they are is helpful only inasmuch as it can serve as a roadmap to a way forward, not as an instrument of blame and recrimination – another way to say it: Shit happens, but if we learn how it happened, we don’t have to let it keep happening. TL;DR: I come in peace so don’t troll me to death, mkaaaay? Thomas Derenthal President IT Consulting Services, LLC Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 I just find it sickening how many ppl come on here saying SHE DESERVED THIS FOR MOUTHING OFF! And I’m here to say, what woman doesn’t mouth off and act feisty and sassy every now and them, does that mean she deserves to get her ass beat down? As I keep saying if this happens to their mother or sister, lets see if they say that. Silven July 3, 2014 This sickens me. Not the violence, oh no. It’s unjustified and over the top, but that’s not the bit that sickens me. Does everyone only see the last few seconds of the video? The man was acting like a total idiot and almost literally asking for this treatment. I get the feeling a big part of the LGBT community feels exceptionally special and privileged. Get your head out of your ass and realize that no matter what your sexuality may be, you’re -not- a special snowflake and if you talk shit like that, you run the risk of getting your ass beat. Once again, I support the idea of the attacker serving a good deal of time in jail but I feel very little sympathy for the victim, the fool. Reply Pyrespirit July 3, 2014 What ridiculous victim blaming, and ridiculous ignorance all around. Firstly; not “man.” Secondly; “transgender” is not a sexuality, it’s an identity. The colloquial explanation is sexuality is who you go to bed with, identity is who you go to bed as. Thirdly; words are not an excuse to hit somebody. Reply Joe July 3, 2014 “words are not an excuse to hit somebody”… Please Word can be threatening and if you threaten me I will hit you with out thinking about it. Christian July 3, 2014 Mmmm…the woman was making a threat to those guys. All I heard from them was jeering…words are no reason to make threats either…Is this even real? If it is, I wholly agree that those men need to be in jail, but this seems an almost fake video. I mean there was a sudden cutaway and the woman was on the ground and then, of course, no report to the police. Idontcareaboutyou July 3, 2014 Unless that man somehow changed his chromosomes to become a woman then no matter what he does, hes still a man. He insulted everyone around, used the N word against the black man and got what he deserved. qwesdfghjasd July 3, 2014 You are the reason we can’t have good things. Fuck you. Reply CoreyDawson July 3, 2014 @Daniel you say, “The whole violence is not the answer crap give me a break. That just weakens our already weakened society.” Not exactly true. Irrational widespread violence can only work to weaken any society. Self defense. intelligence and self respect is what strengthens it. I agree that such behavior as seen in the video was inappropriate but there are ways to restrain a person without kicking them in the head like a primitive. I also agree that said behavior is inviting trouble but the punishment must fit the offense. Baeddelfeme July 3, 2014 You fuckers are the main reason that we are being attacked every day. I was planning to take my girlfriend to Little Five Points to walk and look about, but now we have to be scared someone is going to fucking bludgeon us because you fucking people won’t leave us be. We’re sick and tired of being spat on, laughed at, and treated like freaks. You’re fucking garbage. That’s all you’ll ever be. Nobody trans woman thinks that they’re some special snowflake, you stupid piece of shit; but we know that we’re fucking human and that we should be treated as such. Of course, you’re trash, so how would you be able to understand what human even is. Reply cisgender July 3, 2014 If that wasn’t a transgender person, and was just some frat dude, who was screaming and making a scene in front of a coffee shop, it would get no news coverage by any media outlet. Are you and your girlfriend verbally abusive when you go out in public? No? Then you’ll be fine. We don’t get to see the beginning of this altercation, so we don’t know who started the verbal part of the fight. But even if it was the skaters who somehow mocked the transgender girl, had she just kept walking, or shrugged it off rather than screaming at them, nothing would have happened. Allyssa July 3, 2014 You all are right. Silven, yes, the transwomen in this video really looked like she was asking to get her butt kicked, but we only see one side. We have no idea if it was a back and forth argument. Pyrespirit, yes, the violence looked unwarranted. Dear God, a stomp to the head like that could have killed her! We don’t see who started the fight, or how she got on the ground, but from what I gathered ‘death’ was not the appropriate punishment. Baeddelfeme, yes, we all are human, and no one should live a life of fear. At the end of all this, we don’t know much about the argument or the fight, but we do know that (what I would consider) a murder attempt was made. I don’t know if anyone did anything after that, because the video cuts off, but I certainly hope so. Security should have been notified the moment the argument started. Cajjita July 3, 2014 While the guy didn’t deserve to get his head stomped, he didn’t really handle the situation that well. Stupid people have stupid shit happen to them, regardless of sexual identity. AnonMoose July 3, 2014 So you forgetting the fact he was the first to make a threat (at-least so looking at the video) and not expect a response to the said threat, which resulted in the escalation of the seriousness of this situation? Also If he dressed a little more conspicuously I doubt this would have happened, but instead he went around like a goth/clown hybrid. Daniel July 3, 2014 Ok for one thats not a TS that is more of a CD big Diff. Just because you are in high heels and a wig or have long hair doesn’t make you a TS. Two, the Guy, I will say guy because again CD, is talking mad shit causing a major scene. Therefore he probably popped off to the wrong person. Again, you can not see the clip prior to the curve stomp. The whole violence is not the answer crap give me a break. That just weakens our already weakened society. Who knows the extent of the fight but if you cant take the heat get the fuck out of the fire. Facts are facts he should of walked away and Avoided it.not cause a huge scene cussing everyone out like an idiot. If their was a problem, then he should of called the police. End of Story Armen Dedeyan July 3, 2014 Are you two fucking serious? Do you seriously think that guy hit that dickhead for being transgender? Seriously, get real no one is going to attack you for being what you are stop being fucking paranoid. CoreyDawson July 3, 2014 My apologies to the admin of the comments for posting this again. I responded to a part of the threat I didn’t intend too so I’m retrying. If it’s not allowed again I understand. @Daniel you say, “The whole violence is not the answer crap give me a break. That just weakens our already weakened society.” Not exactly true. Irrational widespread violence can only work to weaken any society. Self defense. intelligence and self respect is what strengthens it. I agree that such behavior as seen in the video was inappropriate but there are ways to restrain a person without kicking them in the head like a primitive. I also agree that said behavior is inviting trouble but the punishment must fit the offense. CoreyDawson July 3, 2014 This is one long clip with a shorter one added at the end. There’s some parts to this story we haven’t seen. Perhaps SHE was being harassed beforehand and pushed to the limit. Sure her behavior may be off but like I said, you never know until her side of the story comes out. I’m not saying that LGBT people are special and always right by any means, but we are often treated like a mockery for no reason. Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 I’m not saying the LGBT is always right, but trans women ARE women and men don’t need to hit us, esp just for MOUTHING off them. Ppl make the wrong comparison, they say stuff like, “if this was just some random dude instead of a trans woman, nothing would be said about” but what they SHOULD be saying is, “if this was any other woman and not a trans woman would it havce still happened? Jonna July 5, 2014 Your comment is awaiting moderation. I’m not saying the LGBT is always right, but trans women ARE women and men don’t need to hit us, esp just for MOUTHING off them. Ppl make the wrong comparison, they say stuff like, “if this was just some random dude instead of a trans woman, nothing would be said about” but what they SHOULD be saying is, “if this was any other woman and not a trans woman would it havce still happened? jonna July 4, 2014 So Silven, if YOUR girlfriend, mother, or sister was “running her mouth” to man do you think SHE would have an ass beating coming? And would he be justified to beat a woman’s ass down? And the fact you call this woman a MAN is very disrespectful. And again you are ingnorantly confusing “special” rights with FEMALE rights. If men aren’t supposed to hit, beat down, etc women, then men aren’t supposed to hit, beat down TRANS women. WE ARE WOMEN. Most of us are on hormones which drastically decreases physical strength and muscle, so men need to keep their hands off us. Anyway, you can’t hit someone just for mouthing off to you. Reply Angie July 5, 2014 My only response: SHE. IS. A WOMAN. GENDER is not a sexuality.. It is an identity. You are a moron. Educate yourself and stop being ignorant. I can’t stand that people say stupid things like this. Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 Your comment is awaiting moderation. So Silven, if YOUR girlfriend, mother, or sister was “running her mouth” to man do you think SHE would have an ass beating coming? And would he be justified to beat a woman’s ass down? And the fact you call this woman a MAN is very disrespectful. And again you are ingnorantly confusing “special” rights with FEMALE rights. If men aren’t supposed to hit, beat down, etc women, then men aren’t supposed to hit, beat down TRANS women. WE ARE WOMEN. Most of us are on hormones which drastically decreases physical strength and muscle, so men need to keep their hands off us. Anyway, you can’t hit someone just for mouthing off to you. And sure we’re special for 2 reasons; 1We are WOMEN and all women are special 2.We are one gender born in the body of the wrong sex. pretty damn special Reply Wowreally July 3, 2014 Individual stands outside smokeshop acting generally crazy and begging passersby for money and being a public nuisance. African american man attempts to go into the smoke shop, gets accosted by said individual and when he refuses to give them money, gets called the N word. Said individual gets assaulted for his hate speech. This is a hate crime, but not the way you think it is. Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 Screw you! Reply Mollins July 3, 2014 First of all this “woman” was mouthing off and asking for an ass whooping. That doesn’t seem very ladylike to me. Talk shit like a man, get your ass beat like one. Equality it here, and turns out women don’t want it anymore. Reply jl July 3, 2014 amen! Reply jonna July 4, 2014 So if your mother or girlfriend was “mouthing off” so some man, would he have the right to beat HER down like this? And yeah so funny how you put woman in “”. You can’t bet someone down just for mouthing off, if that were the case women EVERYWHERE would be beaten down lol Words are 1 thing. but who throws the first punch is the one who goes to jail and ends up with a criminal record. Reply A. Sparkson July 3, 2014 This wasn’t some unprovoked attack. The black dude got called the N-word for refusing to give money and then he was hit first which led to the beating above. Reply jonna July 4, 2014 You don’t hit a woman no matter what. Obama has said that trans women ARE NOW protected under the Violence Against Women act. Most of us trans women are full of estrogen which drastically recuses physical strength and muscle, so we are usually no stronger than a typical woman, so why would it be ok for a normal man to hit us? Reply Hookah July 3, 2014 Its amazing how this entire article and the comments ignores the fact that the thing stood around screaming and provoking the people there instead of just leaving This isnt an attack on transwomen It’s an attack on some idiot who should have went home. What disgusts me is how you will defend this persons actions because you want to take it as a personal attack on group of people. You all disgust me. Reply jl July 3, 2014 not me. im trans and not some stupid deluded ass. She was acting like a man, walking like a man, and, throwing threats like a man. therefore, she had it coming. Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 So if a real female, say your mother or sister, was running her mouth like a man, would a man have the right to beat her ass down? jl July 3, 2014 people are so quick to call something a “hate crime” these days. Trannys piss me off. Yes, im trans. but dont throw a silly parole over words and things like this. This isnt a hate crime. She was being very manly and giving out threats. If your going to be a douche expect someone to turn around and smack you one. Trans or not. Walk away from a problem dont stand there fronting it threatening! “i will fuck you up”. Yep, you asked for that love. Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 So if a real female were doing the same thing, would you condone, a man beating her up? I’m sorry you don’t think very much of yourself as a woman, I don’t know you, but IF you are a trans woman, I don’t think a man has the right to hit you, beat you up nor put his hands on you in a physically violent way for ANY reason, even if you hit him first, b/c YOU are a WOMAN. He needs to walk away. It’s sad I think more if you as a woman than you seem to think of yourself. I’m trans woman too, and like any other woman, we do NOT get hit for any reason….or we shouldn’t get hit. If a man hits us, he’s a pussy coward the same as he is if he hits any other woman. Reply Ryan July 3, 2014 I just called APD to give them the victims name. They wouldn’t even take his name from me. They said there is no investigation because the victim didn’t file the proper report. Am I missing something? I wonder how many murder victims come in and file the proper report- those are still investigated. Reply LB July 4, 2014 This woman is constantly drunk and constantly starting shit (I live here and see her constantly). She didn’t get her ass beat because of her gender identity, she got her ass beat because she was starting trouble, harassing people, SAYING SHE’D BEAT THEIR ASS, etc. This is hardly a surprise to anyone who lives in this part of town. That said, the reaction was excessive obviously, but the whole story is not being told here I’m sure. I also know many of the dudes who work/hang out in Stratosphere, and they aren’t bigots or hateful-but they don’t take shit from people either. Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 So that is justification for a man to put his hands on a woman? I consider it a hate crime even if indirectly. He DID beat her up indirectly b/c of her gender, had she been a REAL female, he would not have beat her down like that, but since she was born male, he thinks he can do that, even though she’s prolly full of estrogen which drastically reduces muscle and strength. How convenient a woman that its OK for him ~a man~ to beat down. Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 Your comment is awaiting moderation. So that is justification for a man to put his hands on a woman? I consider it a hate crime even if indirectly. He DID beat her up indirectly b/c of her gender, had she been a REAL female, he would not have beat her down like that, but since she was born male, he thinks he can do that, even though she’s prolly full of estrogen which drastically reduces muscle and strength. How convenient a woman that its OK for him ~a man~ to beat down. Reply DB July 4, 2014 This person’s known to be wasted, making a scene all over the neighborhood. In the words of Lil Jon though, “Don’t start no shit won’t be no shit.” Reply Candace July 4, 2014 No one has the right to put their hands on anyone, no matter what they say or how mad they make you. If someone is cussing you, calling you names, or making a scene, call the cops. Until they hit you or pull a weapon, you canNOT touch them and it ever be okay. It doesn’t make you a “man” to hit someone over some prideful, bullshit reason. She could have mental or emotional problems that we don’t know about. I don’t care what she said….I don’t think it was okay for her to say the things she did, but she never, ever deserved a stomp to the face. No one does. It’s appalling how many people have said she was asking for it. I guess when a girl’s skirt is too short, she’s asking for strangers to put their hands on her, too, or worse, right? Jeez. Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 Finally someone here with some sense. Aside from the fact you’re not supposed to hit a woman. You can’t beat someone down just for mouthing off. Being rude, catty, or bitchy is not a free pass to put your hands on someone. Reply Marco July 4, 2014 ” If someone is cussing you, calling you names, or making a scene, call the cops.” How weak are you? The police will just shake their heads and play the role of a parent breaking up their children. You just described a textbook bully and calling the cops never helped anyone. You want to know the most effective way to deal with bullies? This video is a perfect example. Your gender does not give and should not give you special rights to be a bully to anyone. When the smoke clears at the end of the day, you have to admit that she/he was asking for it and it could have gotten worse. The world doesn’t revolve around you. Reply Little Dougie July 4, 2014 I walk through there daily. I understand the reaction of the LGBT community and how they see this as an attack on them and everything. And I also get that the kid was acting drunk and crazy and may have just pushed someone too far. But I also know that there are a lot of fucked up aggressive drunk and/or homeless nuts in L5P that are not properly medicated, and frankly, in my opinion, both of these characters fit this catagory. We will never know the entire story here, the video was edited from vine clips, and evidently there were more vine clips than what ended up in the youtube post, and that even the vine clips themselves didn’t capture the complete altercation. I don’t really care who started what. I got fucking kids. I don’t want my kids to see this kind of shit while we are just going to get a pizza. It’s fucking day time and there are people everywhere and there is nobody calling police? This whole thing should have ended in police custody for both sides. The kid with a pussy should have been arrested for public intoxication, or at least brought to the drunk tank, and the kid with the sneakers should be charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon; to wit a shawed foot. and should be advised by a court appointed attorney to plead guilty to the lesser charge. But of course everybody is just standing around acting like its just another afternoon in L5P. Nobody wants to get involved. It’s just a big fucking joke. If an investigation does not end with an arrest than basically the Atlanta police are inviting more attacks in broad daylight, regardless of who the victim is. Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 I am shocked by how many ppl are saying she deserved it for mouthing off. You cant beat someone up just for mouthing off. Being catty, bitchy or rude is not a free pass to put your hands on someone. It is indirectly a hate crime. Ppl keep saying, “if this was an ordinary dude and not a trans woman nothing would be said about it” BUT the real thing you should be saying is, “If this was a REAL FEMALE and not a trans woman, the guy would have prolly never beat her down like that” Most trans women take estrogen, making them physically weaker than men, so he has no business beating on her. Reply Marco July 4, 2014 “You cant beat someone up just for mouthing off.” Do you support the Westboro Baptist Church? Bullies? Hate groups that preach hate in the streets? “It is indirectly a hate crime.” This man didn’t go after this transperson, the transperson provoked the attack and lost. It is not hate when the other guy is provoking you to fight. “Most trans women take estrogen, making them physically weaker than men, so he has no business beating on her.” Or she/he can take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and not provoke strangers into a fight that she/he cannot win. Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 Marco- So if this were a REAL female instead of a trans woman mouthing off to a man, would you say he has the right to beat her down? If your mother or sister mouthed off to a man, would you support HIM beating them down and kicking their asses? Funny no one has answered that question yet. So you’re going on the record saying that “MEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAT WOMEN DOWN FOR MOUTHING OFF”? And no I dont support the WBC, but they have the right to say what they want. Plus I feel trans women SHOULD just be treated as women PERIOD, And women aren’t supposed to be hit , are they? Most ppl say even if a woman hits YOU first you should just “walk away” And to me it was a hate crime ,b/c the guy would NOT have ever put his hands on a REAL female like that, probably nopt even if she hit him first. So yeah it was b/c of the girl’s gender that she got attacked, the guy probably thought, “Ah you were born with the same anatomy I was there for it’s ok for me to hit you, PLUS you’ve prolly taken estrogen meaning yo uare as weak as a woman, HOW CONVENIENT, a woman who I can beat up and get away with it, EASY FIGHT!” Jonna July 4, 2014 And for ppl who are saying she will always be a man. NOT if we redefine terms. Just like Pluto didn’t always stay a planet. We can also redefine how we define “man” and “woman” to me a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, female brain, and further more if she goes further to develop breast, and a womanly outward appearance, under certain defintions she IS a woman, in a practical real world sense that is useful she is a woman! Who cares about chromosomes. Doctors and like are starting to define this way too. Defintions are merely man-made terms we as human beings put on things to convey info. they are not set in stone and they are subject to change. so at one time a woman was define as being born with a vagina, uterus, etc….now days more and more ia woman is define as anyone having a female brain and identifying as one, we change as we learn more and get more info. On top of that, if a baby was born with three legs, and later has one surgically removed, should he be able to fit into society as a normal 2 legged person or for EVER be known as the “person born with 3 legs”? Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 She is the master of her body and SHE alone gets to decide her identity! She doesn’t have to be a slave to her anatomy. Reply Jonna July 4, 2014 https://www.facebook.com/divamagazine/photos/a.10151766957225671.1073741825.14494605670/10152164633535671/?type=1&theater Reply Dee Omally July 4, 2014 The victim is standing on a public sidewalk outside of a business. The victim is only being verbal. The victim is shown in a defenseless position on her back on the sidewalk and does not have a weapon. Belligerent and bellicose behavior is a disturbance and no more. Police get paid to handle this. What the video shows is this person in a defenseless position being assaulted…not just contact (battery) but assaulted by a big man who appears to be in the military. The violent man is wearing an “Air Force” T-shirt. There are some Air Force facilities in the Georgia area. I was an AF MP. Military people are subject not only to Penal Codes outside a base, but also to the UCMJ. This man, if found and convicted, and if he is a military man, faces the very real possibility of military discharge. There is video evidence that identifies both the victim and the perpetrator. This violent man was not engaging in justifiable use of force to defend himself. This violent man, as the video shows, is so violent that he attempted serious injury by going for the victim’s head. Because a head striking a hard concrete surface can and has caused death by kicking, it is not a stretch to accuse the perpetrator of attempted murder. It is one thing to strike someone in the head with a closed fist, and quite another to do so with the force of body weight distributed by and centered by a foot. This man is a violent man. This man is a very violent man. This man is so violent that he cared little about being videotaped in broad daylight attempting to strike someone’s head onto a concrete floor. It doesn’t matter what sex/gender, age, of the person. The video shows not what he tried to do, but what he did. If not caught this violent man is capable of committing murder, as proven by striking someone at or near the head while on the ground. The APD MUST be provided a copy of the video….and the victim MUST go file citizen arrest charges on this violent man. He has no place as a free man in civilized society. Reply Jonna July 7, 2014 Totally agree. I have respect for military ppl, but from what I’ve seen they usually HATE trans ppl. But I’m amazed at how many ppl think you can kick someone’s ass just for mouthing off. Judge Judy would throw the book at this guy, I rmemeber one case she had where she threw the book at a guy for beating up another guy and it was similar to this, the guy simply “mouthed off to him” and Judy explained you cannot assault someone for mouthing off, and the guy who beat him up NEVER did get why she ruled against him, the case ended with him saying, “But he mouthed off to me!!! I don’t get it! What am I supposed to do just stand there!?” I’ts amazing! Reply Janet V. July 4, 2014 i dont think this is a tranny……the aura gave me man being a prick and someone trying to embarrass him by calling him a tranny………this looks to be a punk like skater boy who happens to have on a hot topic corset…….. THis fight clearly looked like the hot topic model picked a fight with a pitbull……. Im Janet V. (Transwoman) DJ & Music Producer Reply Jeff July 4, 2014 This situation baffles me because it wouldn’t have escalated to the point of violence if the transgender person just walked away. I don’t believe this is a hate crime, or a crime against women or transgender people, like many here are claiming – I believe it was an act of violence performed on an individual who was obviously looking for an altercation. Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 Why do we trans women alway have to be the one to walk away? I garantee IF this were a REAL female instead of a trans female mouthing off like that to a man and he beat HER like that, you would probably be saying the HE as the MAN should have been the one to walk away and that he shouldn’t put his hands on a woman for any reason at all, even if she is yelling and being mouthy. Bottom line is, just b/c someone is being catty, bitchy and mouthing off is no justification to put your hands on them! Reply Jeff July 5, 2014 While I agree with some of your points I feel like I must restate myself. No, violence was obviously not the answer in this situation. Yes, the man could have also walked away. However, one must take responsibility for their behavior in public. Not that the transgender person, or any person, deserves to be hit like this. Use your head, use common sense. This was never an issue about gender, its about using your head. A twist to my argument may come from the fact that alcohol may have been involved, so the transgender person might not have been in total control of the situation because they were under the influence of a drug. In which case, I rebut, it is the consumer of alcohol’s responsibility to enjoy their substances responsibly and in moderation. If you have a history of becoming violent, confrontational, or emotional when consuming alcohol, perhaps it is best to lay off that last drink or enjoy alcohol at home rather than in public. Again, the situation ties back to the use (or in this case, misuse) of common sense of all parties involved. Jonna July 5, 2014 I feel it IS about the girl’s gender, even if indirectly, the girl might have started it by mouthing off BUT the guy felt he had the right to beat her down b/c she was born male, had she been born female he would not have done such a thing. If she had been born female even if she hit him first he’d likely not even hit her back, I’ve seen that happen too often,a guy will just be sitting there while a cis girl beats the crap out of him. BUT since this girl was born male, the guy thought he could attack her, so yea it is an offense toward trans ppl. I hope he gets at least 5 years in prison like the girl did in Baltimore for beating down the trans girl. Reply ChrisCrossdresser July 4, 2014 If a teen gets a 5 year sentence for beating up a trannie, then what would of been the sentence for King & Spalding lawyer RAYMOND E. BALTZ JR. FOR VIOLATING THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF A U.S. LAW ABIDING GAY CROSSDRESSER??? What kind of lawyer BLOCKS a GAY CROSSDRESSER, from WALKING ON THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK IN A PUBLIC PARK?? And when threatened to being reported, Mr. Baltz quips “It would be your word against ours (Buckhead Baseball) & who would believe YOURS?” Without even knowing a DAMN thing about ChrisCrossdresser, KING & SPALDING PARTNER RAYMND E. BALTZ JR. VIOLATED THE CIVIL RITHTS OF THE L/G/B/T COMMUNITY! Just for WALKING ON A PUBLIC SIDEWALK, IN A CITY OF ATLANTA PUBLIC PARK!!!!! I DEMAND JUSTICE!!! Why is ATLANTA’S Fulton County Govt. ALLOWING IT TO CONTINUE????? And why is Coca-Cola a “proud major sponsor” of the ALL WHITE , TAX EXEMPT, HOMOPHOBIC HATE GROUP??? Coke talks “diversity” ,BUT THEY SURE IN HELL DON’T PRACTICE IT! Had i only known that Ray Baltz Jr. was a lawyer at the time, I WOULD HAVE HAD HIM ARRESTED & PRESSED CHARGES! http://lgbtweekly.com/2011/09/14/five-year-sentence-for-teen-charged-in-mcdonald's-transgender-beating/ Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 I’m so glad that at least Obama said that transgender women will be included with other women and protected under the Violence Against Women act. I hope they go as hard on this piece of filth guy as they would if he beat down any other woman like this. If she was not trans ~had not been born in the wrong body~ and if she was a real female it wouldn’t be tolerated, so it shouldn’t be here either. He is a coward and pussy the same as any man is who hits any woman! Reply Little Dougie July 5, 2014 I didn’t want to get into the whole Man/Woman/Trans aspect of this because then it just turns into a lame redundant debate that can be had anywhere. But it has, and that tells a lot about us, we try to rationalize everything. “Maybe she has a dick, maybe she deserves it, maybe he deserves it,…”. The only factors that should receive attention in my opinion are that it was broad daylight, and somebody’s getting there head stomped in, and nobody, for whatever fucking reason called the cops. Shit that coffee shop is right there, your telling me there aint no bourgeois sitting right in there? And everyone of those kids in the background coming out of Junkman’s Daughter has a fucking cell phone… your telling me these three businesses, Stratosphere included, don’t see/hear nothing going on? Anyway, I digress… I’ve heard this all before, particularly the “You are what you say you are.”/”She alone decides her own identity.” And I want to offer my take on it in a moment, however first I can’t help address the whole idea one post offered that Transgender women take estrogen and therefor are weaker than men, and another response to that, that the kid needs to take responsability when provoking strangers into a fight he cannot win, now that she’s taking the estrogen. What? I don’t buy either arguement for a second. Basically the rational conclusion to this is that women are inherently weaker than men and therefor, regardless of whether you were born a woman or choose to become a woman, you shouldn’t provoke a man because your weaker and could end up getting your head jump-stomped in. Nice logic. And I wanna respond to that comment that if your born with three legs and choose to get one removed are you still always gonna be three legged, well no because you could cut it off…another variation of this, could be, and I’m gonna take it there is …What if your born WHITE, but in your heart you always felt BLACK? You always identified with like, gangsta rap, always been turned on by black girls… Now nobody is ever gonna accept that your black. Black people especially, are probably gonna be pissed. “Who the fuck does this fool think he is?” The white kid is only looking at what it means to be black from the outside, from the safety of his white perspective. Thats a luxury really, thats a privilege. He’s got his white privilege to view what he precives as what it means to be black, and then projects that image on his own identity. And he will rarely get away with it. It’s just seen as a bad fucking joke. And thats because Black people generally hold their experiences, and their culture, and what it means to be say, African American close, like cards to their chests. And they should. They don’t have the luxury of cutting off the black part, like a third leg. And so I got to wonder why women, who are born women, are so quick to embrace a man that decides to call himself a woman? Where is the critical analysis? What led him to interpret his experiences and struggles as those parallel to a womans? I mean I’m not saying he is wrong, but I’m a man, It ain’t really my place, I don’t know how a woman feels. But he is looking at what it means to me a woman from the outside, with the privilege and luxury of having been born a man, and projecting those images of what he percives as “Female” on to his own identity. Now, I’ve had my fucking ass kicked, a couple of times, but I didn’t equate those experinces with weakness, therefor “feminin.” Instead I concluded that another man fucking kicked my ass. It just seems to me that there has to be a fair enough sized population of male to female transgender women who are projecting there image of what female is on to themselves for what ever reason. Maybe they were abused or beaten at a young age and felt “emasculated” and in order to seek some resolution or consolation began to identify those feeling with “feminin.” If that were the case than already the guy has a fucked up image of what it means to be a woman because feminin does not inherently mean weak… Whatever, I don’t know, I am not purporting to have tha answers or to see the big picture. I just think Men have tried to define what it meant to be a woman since the beginning of time and that “Feminism” should not be too quick to embrace transgender woman as a whole because, people come to similar conclusions for a lot of different reasons. And the idea of say, “all-inclusiveness” may seam nice and feel good, but I just think there is a risk of loosing the female identity when you continue to allow men, whether they describe themselves as men or not, to define womanhood. And I want to reiterate; Nobody should be getting kicked in the fucking head in the middle of a heavily trafficked retail district in broad daylight. Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 I’m not sure I understand exactly all you say BUT I certainly don’t consider myself a man defining womanhood, I AM a woman, I just happened to be born in the wrong body that does not match my brain. So in a civilized society I feel the decent thing to do would be to accept me as a woman, based on my brain, not my anatomy. As I also pointed out, definitions DO change over time, at one time a woman might have been defined as having a vagina, uterus, etc… but now more ppl are starting to define a woman as anyone identifying as a female and having a female brain, and you know? We can DO THAT!! Definitons and terms are subject to change. Pluto was once defined as a planet, now it’s not. Words actually don’t have meaning! They only have usages, so if someone born with a penis wants to be identified as SHE and HER and as a woman, I don’t see the problem. And about the 3-legged person… One could say, that he CAN have one leg surgically removed but he will always have the “design” as it were of a 3-legged person, BUT in a civilized society we would accept him as a normal 2-legged person. If a brunette bleaches her hair blonde she might always have the DNA of a brunette BUT I have no problem calling her a blonde, b.c in every practical way that is useful she is a blonde now. A tomato by definition is a fruit, but most ppl use it and reguard it as a vegetable, so I have no problem calling it a vegetable, just as most ppl call it a vegetable. Again there are dictionary definitions and there are real world definitions. For all practical purposes I am a woman, even though my DNA might say I am ~what many define as male~ No I can’t have babies as I get it pointed out to me almost on a daily basis, BUT neither can many REAL females, but I don’t see those females treated any less like women based on their inability to have children. Again, I am the master of my own identity, I can define womanhood for ME anyway I chose to. And what privileges of manhood to I get, usually we are looked at as the lowest of the low, we get fired ~much more than women do~ we get beat up, bullied harassed, etc… so just where the hell are my male privileges?? Usually what ppl try to do is strip trans women of male privileges AND deprive us of female privileges, BUT they want to give the disadvantages, drawbacks, and responsibility of both sexes. I’m always hearing things like, If you’re gonna be a woman you gotta learn to be submissive! ~female drawback~ BUT you can’t expect a man not to beat your ass, b/c you’re really a man so you don’t get that female privilege ~male drawback~, and the list goes on and on. I really don’t know of any damn privilege trans ppl get in general, neither male nor female. But I’m not out for male privileges b.c I’m a WOMAN. I want no part of being male! Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 On another note, I CAN say I know how a woman feels b/c I AM a woman, just didn’t get born in the right body. But in another sense, not all women know how all other women feel since all women are individuals with different feeling and all feel differently. As a man you don’t know how I, as a trans woman, feel. About the black and white thing. First off, I will say ANYONE should be able to identify themselves anyway they choose. I am white BUT If I want to identify myself as black, if I feel black, then I’ve got that right, and it really doesn’y make sense that a black person would be annoyed, I’m not taking anything away from him or her, it’s ME! It’s MY IDENTITY, what is it to anyone how I identify myself? If that ever comes to be an issue it will prolly just be another hurdle that will take us about a generation to overcome. Reply Rev. Sonya E. Williams July 5, 2014 I agree with Miss Cheryl Courtney Evens. This is an outrage and the fact that once again, no one sought to reach out an intervene is an increasingly growing unacceptable flaw in our society. While this is yet another major attack on our trans-gender community, it is also a breech in our social contract as human beings. This must STOP NOW! I am not transgender but we all have a responsibility to eradicate this cancer in our society. Pastor Sonya E. Williams Restoration Inclusive Ministries http://www.rimatlanta.org Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 This is exactly what happened when the teen girl beat up the trans girl into a seizure in Baltimore. Everyone just stood there and watched except 1 older woman who tried to help. Reply Little Dougie July 5, 2014 I think that I understand what you are saying. And I agree, words don’t have meanings. We can choose to call anything anything. But at some point that just breaks down into some ridiculous post-modern mess. If “Female” is only a word why is it so important for you to embrace it as your own identity? I am male but I don’t insist on people viewing me as a man. Most of the time I don’t feel like a man. I feel like a big fucking kid a lot of the time. If I want to veiw myself as a child who is trapped in a mans body, you would argue who is anyone to say that I’m not? Right? Okay. So now I have to say that I admire your certainty. It must be comforting, with all the challenges that you seem to face being accepted, that you can at least feel confidant in accepting your own identity as a woman. If, as you say, words don’t mean anything, why insist on being a “Woman”? Why is it so important? And if none of these words mean anything anyway then why insist on everyone else calling you a woman? In a way what you could very well be doing is reinforcing these definitions, And the like, gender roles, created by them. I think at some point you decided exactly what a man was and what a woman was, where you got these ideas, I don’t know, probably the same place that I did, from my mother and father, and ultimately from popular culture. And like everyone, began to identify with one image, while discarding the other. How do you know that you were right? How can you say for certain that your image of a woman, the image of women that you identify with, is correct? I wonder if the male brain and the female brain are really any different at all. As we developed this sense of self, our ideas about what it means to me a man and what it means to be a woman came from somewhere right? But at some point you made a conscious decision that you were in the wrong body. You saw images of men and woman and realized that there was a mistake. But those images came from somewhere. MEN! I don’t know, really I could go either way. It doesn’t really matter to me. You seem nice. You seem sincear. And I don’t mean to make it all about you and me. There are billions of people in the world. I just want to say, I’m not trans-phobic, I don’t fear transgender people, they don’t make me feel uncomfortabe, they don’t challenge my own ideas of masculinity because I am secretly sexually attracted to them, or anything like that. I don’t care that you don’t have a uterus, I don’t care if you can or cannot “pass”. And most importantly I’m not trying to make you feel uncomfortable or worse, I would never hit you or any of this bullshit that has been happening in Atlanta, which I am totally against. To be honest I don’t care how you live your life. I don’t care what you want to call yourself or how you dress. I would stand next to you to fight for your safety, which I believe all human beings are entitled to. I just think that somewhere along the line you accepted the same ideas that you purport to advocate against. And I think that that is because you are really a man. That is one of the privileges of manhood. You have it both ways. You get to embrace a particular definition, while simultaneously maintaining that definitions don’t exist. Reply Jonna July 5, 2014 I definitely think a male brain is different from a female brain, aside from the studies that have been done, most ppl are very quick to say, “Men think differently than women” or “There are many more differences between men and women other than just their anatomy!” But when it comes to us trans women ppl always wanna say, “There is absolutely no difference between a male and female brain. I call myself a woman b/c I identify as what we GENERALLY define a woman to be menally emotionally and psychologically. And me being able to define things like this has nothing to do with me being cis male, cis females can do the same thing, in fact, a cisgender female is the one who explained it to me this was as far as the definitions go and all. I was the one who got fired from my last job, simply b/c I didn’t act enough “like a man”, none of the cis women got fired for that reason. ANd I also hear this all the time, “What if I feel like a tree” or “How bout me, I don’t feel like a man, I feel like a little kid” Honestly I these things are nonsensical, I don’t see how these things are related to identifying as the other gender. I don’t know you but I’m pretty sure that, even if u feel like a kid sometimes you still identify as a male…If someone called you SHE, I’m fairly sure you’d correct them, as most everyone does who I hear put in that situation, even though most of them tell me it means NOTHING to them, ppl tell me HE and SHE means nothing to them, but when someone gets their pronoun wrong they correct them in a split second. I appreciate the otherwise support you said you have from me, but in that last paragraph where you called me a man, is totally disrespectful to my identity. Reply Little Dougie July 6, 2014 “I call myself a woman b/c I identify as what we GENERALLY define a woman to be mentally emotionally and psychologically.” What do WE generally define a woman to be mentally, emotionally and psychologically? Where does YOUR definition come from? Also what makes someone elses definitions “nonsensical” while you demand that your definitions are accepted? respected? Dont bother trying to answer this… …I think that your gut reaction, the emotional response is genuine, but what your getting caught up in is trying to explain it. In developing an intellectual argument. If its a neurological anomaly it would be like asking an autistic person why he has so much trouble connecting with other people. But you say its not a brain problem its a body problem. …So thats a problem… Jonna July 6, 2014 And I call the “what if I feel like a tree” argument non-sensical b/c even if it IS a real condition, how in the hell is it related to gender dysphoria?? It is one thing to identify as the opposite sex but I don’t see how identifying as something totally out of your species is logical? It’s sorta like the stupid argument, “Well if men can marry men, and women can marry women, then whats to stop ppl from marrying cats and dogs or TREES?” I just don’t get the correlation? Jonna July 6, 2014 Again it’s a semantics problem. We trans women are not allowed to make a statement like “I’m a woman” without it being called out, analyzed, psyhco-analyzed and examined. I really get sick of that! A cis woman can make a statement like that and no one says anything b/c you know what the hell she means. And honestly I think you khow what I mean too. Like a cis female can say, “I want to find my prince Charming like every other woman does!” And everyone is like “true!” or “You go girl!” But if I made that statement as a trans women, you better believe I’d get called out…with questions like, “How do you know what every woman wants?”, “some women may not want a Prince Charming!” “How can you speak for all women!?” Bottom line is, as I’ve said, I identify mentally as a FEMALE…just like all other women identify as females, so the respectful thing to do is to reguard me and treat me as one… .And I know you could have semantical hayday with that statement, but I’m pretty sure you know what I mean. As to HOW it happens, you can read up on that yourself, but the most accepted theory is, every fetus starts out as female, when it turns to male it gets a huge amount of male hormone, in the case of the transgender female ~my case~ and the victim in this vid…..the body gets the male hormone but the brains remains female. So I define myself as a female, b/c I AM. Reply Jason July 5, 2014 No, this video wasn’t a “Hate Crime”. It was a video of a drunkdumbfuck mouthing off to other Dumbfucks and eventually got her shit stomped the fuck out. Yes, the stomp was over the top, but, honestly, what the fuck did she think was going to happen? Also, you can clearly hear in the video, someone says “Fuck off”, which, she failed to do and got stoned cold. I’m PRETTY fucking sure if she was a Man, NOBODY would had said jack shit and would have shrugged it off as “Men being violent”, but now that it’s a Woman, people want to help? I’m sorry, but, don’t fucking fuck with people and lave others alone with your bullshit. Reply Jonna July 7, 2014 Ok, so if your mother, sister, girlfriend or ANY woman you love dearly is merely mouthing off to someone and he stomps her ass into the ground, lets see if you’re still saying this. Reply Johnny Come Lately July 5, 2014 Both the original Vine clips and the YouTube compilation were taken down (the latter “as a violation of YouTube’s policy prohibiting content designed to harass, bully or threaten”); do you think you could re-host the compilation on LiveLeak or somewhere else that wouldn’t take videos down so readily? Reply Chris July 6, 2014 Is it okay to see both of them in the wrong? The black man should be arrested for physical assault, and the trans woman should be arrested for public drunkenness. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of rational talk in this conversation. We need the LGBT and PoC community to come together instead of getting in these pissing debates. Both are marginalized groups, so this bickering would only serve to create dissension within these groups rather than unity. Reply Little Dougie July 8, 2014 No, no, no. The attacker was not black. The victim did evidently call a black guy walking through a nigger at some point, earlier in the whole fiasco, but the actual attacker was a white kid, I watched the clip about a twenty times. Reply Little Dougie July 7, 2014 Well your right, semantics are a ball buster, and I agree, the whole, I feel like a tree response is fucking lame. And you are right, your not allowed to make the statement that you are a woman without being psycho-analyzed. And that’s because it’s viewed as an attempt to seek acceptance, not for what you are, but what you want to be. The assumption is that there is either mental illness, or it’s underlining sexual deviance, like cross dressing or whatever. That it is a choice. I think that you take it for granted though that you did have the choice to live as a gay man, I mean as a woman, your attracted to men right? Your not gonna tell me that your a lesbian trapped in a mans body right? Sure women’s bodies are more beutiful and you would like to look down or in the mirror and see one, as opposed to this shitty man body and your penis just didn’t ever seem right, I can understand that. And I can accept that. And could sympathize with those everyday struggles you would face. But that’s not the case. The prevailing explination is that it’s not a question of sexuality but of gender. It’s not that you WISH you were a woman, but that you ARE a woman and therefor you feel the same feelings, developed the same thought process, and ultimatly face the same difficulties. A woman born a woman doesn’t have the option to choose not to be, I mean, I think the predudice that you experince is something different than what a woman born a woman experinces, it’s not the sexism that a woman experiences, it’s not the same objectification or sexualisation that feminists talk about. And so therefor the challenges and struggle you face are different. I mean you would agree that you gotta deal with other shit entirely. You are something different. Why isn’t there a movement to embrace your unique challenges, why cling to these definitions that you have repeatedly declare don’t really exist? Why fight to be accepted as something that you know your not, completly. I mean you insist that your brain is that of a woman, but you know that your body is not a woman body. So who are you trying to convince? whould it make it easier to convince YOURSELF if you knew the world would accept the outcome? I don’t know, from your posts you project confidence, and I don’t expect you to decribe what internal conflicts you have experienced. Even though it seem like it’s just you and me left here, this is a public forum and shit, you have been putting it all out here but still, I wish we could just continue this privately…I don’t like that it feels like your constantly defending yourself against my attempts to discredit you. I wish It felt more like a conversation. I know it must be painful, you have invested so much time and energy in accepting this identity, only to be both descriminated against by the overall society and ostrisized by many of those that you most identify with. But I think that I agree with the radicals that say transgender women are reinforcing these gender stereotypes. Now I know, YOU’VE told me several times that YOU are not another man trying to co-opting womens bodies, you are a WOMAN, and we’ve been through all the stages of this debate, aside from the initial reaction that your probably used to. Including the few times where you suggest that it should just be accepted, without debate at all. But from the very beginning I knew it was a slippery slope and would end in a stalemate. Its not good enough to just be accepted for being transgender. You still seek acceptance as simply a woman. We could just go on and on and on with this… Reply Jonna July 7, 2014 Before I read the rest of your comment I just wanted to answer the part about me being lesbian. I’m actually BISEXUAL, I used to identify totally as lesbian but I do like some men. I’m just not that crazy about PENISES. And that’s another huge area of ignorance…. WHY can’t I be lesbian? Just as there are straight, lesbian and bi, and asexual WOMEN, there can also be straight, lesbian, bi and asexual TRANS women. Sexual preference and gender identity have nothing to do with eachother at ALL. So just b/c I might be attracted to women in no way means I’m a man, just as the lipstick lesbian who’s attracted to women does not mean she wants to be a man. I really don’t see why that’s so confusing, my life does not hinge on who I wanna have sex with, that is just one part of it. Again I guess you see this as a “cis gender privilege” only a…..REAL woman is allowed to be attracted to another woman ? We trans women must be attracted to men, we have to wear a ruffled lacy dress 24/7, complete with a feather boa, 6 inch stilettos, right? Is that what we trans women have to do? We don’t get the options of…….REAL women do we? Honestly I prefer tall strong tomboyish girls…no1. I like strength in my partner, muscle, heith ect… but I don’t like penises.. So a tall tomboyish girl fits that, and I’m open to being with either another trans girl OR a cis girl, I guess I’m pan sexual ~but that has nothing to do with my being transgender. We don’t all fit into a nice neat little cookie-cutter mould box. Transgender women are just as diverse cisgender women. Reply Jonna July 7, 2014 But I get the question all the time, “If you like women, why not just stay a guy?” And I think that is one of the most WRONG questions ever…. It’d be like asking a gay man “If you like men, why not BECOME a woman?” It’s as I said, who I have a relationship with is ONE PART of my life, my sexual preference….Who I identify as, is basically ME…ALL my life, so even if I dated a woman I’d still want to be ME..a WOMAN, not a guy. I think a couple paragraphs is worth this, b/c this is one thing that needs to be cleared up. B/c usually when ppl hear of a trans lesbian woman, they are like “Ah so you’re just a guy then? ” and that is fucked up! It’s like saying my entire identity is determined by whom I wanna have sex with, which is wrong! Actually at one time my BF was a gay trans woman, he was born female, attracted to men, but lived as a man, so he identified as a gay man, we related so much to eachother. Ppl used to tell him, ” Ah so youre just a girl then?” And we are both like “NO !!! NO !!! NO!!!!! YOU IDIOTS!” Reply Jonna July 7, 2014 And no I didn’t have the choice be a gay man, I was not born a man who was attracted to other men, I wasn’t born a man at all. IF I did have the choice, I might choose to be a gay man, gay men aren’t as hated as trans women. You seem to think this is all about sexual preference from what I gather. So why do I want to BE a woman if I’m attracted to women, simple answer, b/c I AM a woman. Reply Little Dougie July 7, 2014 I think you might want to re-read what I wrote. I never said I thought it was all about sexual preference. …But Im starting to… A ruffled lacy dress? A feather boa? 6 inch stilettos? I think your projecting or attaching some other conversation with somebody else, on to ours. I think you just hear what you want to here, are overly defensive and looking for this to be an arguement. I think you want to be a victim, honestly. And I didn’t think it was all about sexual preference but now I am starting to think you simply decided to live your actual life like your sexual fantasies. That your trying to rationalize and ultimatly legitimize what you yourself may initially have precived to be a sexual deviance, in a desperate attempt to absolve yourself. Now, I don’t really think that there is anything wrong with all that. To be honest, it’s okay to be a freak…but you want to somehow normalize it. Whatever this is just going to go on forever. I love you Jonna. Reply Jonna July 7, 2014 If you think this is all about sexual fantasy then you are WRONG. You can think what you want but it doesn’t make it so. I was saying I was a girl when I was 4 years old long before I even knew about SEX, and I used to get mad and have screaming fits if anyone refered to me as a boy or as HE when I was little. The only fantasy I used to hve and it was not sexual, when I was little I used to fantasize about growing up and marrying a woman and us both wearing beautiful wedding dresses. And of course got pissed off again when ppl said, “No! You have to wear a tux!” Yeah I’m a rare case society just doesn’t know what to make of yet, ppl have recognizing or acknowledging anything new that doest fit in a nice neat little box, so ppl wanna tell me that i’m a gay man in denial, or i’m a straight man whos kinda confused, at least tha they can kinda make sense of. I take offense to you telling me, “Don’t even tell me you’re a lesbian!” like I don’t have THAT option since I’m not a …..REAL girl, I’m only allowed to be attracted to men, and if I’m attracted to women that somehow discounts me as a woman, like I have to have sex with men to prove myself as a woman. But I guess pansexual fits me, I’m open to dating anyone, I think it’s kinda silly to rule out an entire gender. But if I were with a man it would feel like a straight relationship to me, if I were with another woman, it would feel like a lesbian relationship. Mentally and emotionally we’d relate to eachother as women, plus I don’t even wanna have sex with a woman like a man does, dont’ really care for intercourse of any type, there are many more fun ways to explore sex, I really think lesbians understand this better than gay men OR straight men and women, with gay men and straight men and women, it’s all just about one organ being rubbed in and out of another organ.. Yep youll never meet another like me. Reply Leave a Reply Cancel Reply Your email address will not be published. Name* Email* Website 9 × three = Comment Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.